KJV Bible – The One & Only?

The following is a “status update” that I posted on FaceBook on June 3, 2009. Everything underneath it is the discussion that came of my status – nearly 100 comments! The “discussion” started on the 3rd of June and continued through the 9th of June. *whew!* What an issue…! Some people may not appreciate everything that they will read here, but that’s ok. 🙂 You’re more than welcome to join in and add your thoughts to the discussion at the bottom by submitting a comment (or two, or three, or… etc).

~~the KJV Bible is the inspired, preserved down through the ages, flawless, two-edged Sword, Holy Word of Almighty God! I stand by that truth! I thank God for my KJV Bible.

Gregory: You guys worship it like it’s the original document handed down from God himself! It is, after all, a translation. 😀

Heather: watch your words, bud… He allowed it to be carefully translated into the English language for us. That Bible has survived and been preserved through the ages and many persecutions. But truth always rises.
Without the KJV there wouldn’t be all these other “wanna-be” bibles out there that are translated from it.

Sarah 1: wow. Just a thought: I have friends that are missionaries to Japan. They have been denied support from several churches because the Bible they use is in Japanese, therefore not KJV. Does that even make sense?

Gregory: Did you know the KJV isn’t even the oldest existing English Bible? The Geneva Bible is even older, and it’s what the pilgrims and early immigrants used to keep their faith strong. Not to sound rude, but no translation was taken from the King James. All current translations use even older manuscripts than the KJV was taken from, with a fresh set of Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic scholars.

Brian: we know where the translation was taken from, and we don’t worship the book. But we believe it is the translation for English speaking people.

Heather: Sarah, no I agree with you. Other languages will have their own “KJV” version for their languages! But the KJV for the English speaking people is what I’m talking about!

Jessica: God built this country on the KJV Bible. I think if it was flawed in anyway God would not have allowed it to withstand all these years.

Heather: Brian, exactly!

Heather: Jessica, exactly! I have smart friends!

Steven: KJV is cool, but I don’t speak ‘Old English’. I thank God for giving our culture a translation for our Language. I love and thank God for my ESV and NASB Bible!

Gregory: Amen Steven! 🙂

Laurel: I love to teach grammar and outlining from the KJV.

Heather: there was a day when kids were taught how to read by reading that blessed KJV Bible…!

Lauren: I agree with you about the KJV Heather, and you do have smart friends…some of them anyway! 😉

Jeremy: Actually, America was founded on the Geneva Bible (the Bible of the Puritans in Massachusetts), which is around 95% similar to the AV and was used as a reference in the AV’s translation. It was still a popular Bible during the days of the American Revolution in many of the northern colonies. By the time the AV really took hold in the States, it was in the 1780’s, and it had already been revised several times until it arrived in its current state in 1769 with the Oxford Standard rendering.

Steven: Even Jesus quoted the Old Testament from multiple translations.

Jeremy: Including the Septuagint, which was translated from those terrible Alexandrian texts.

Caleb W: Jesus Christ IS the word. He can say whatever he wants. As the author, he can make revisions whenever he wants.

Charlene: I just read this verse tonight, perfect timing, “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are which testify of me.” John 6:39. The scriptures aren’t life in itself, but they testify of the life giving Saviour. It’s all about HIM.

Caleb D: As far as translations are concerned I am not going to tell anyone they are wrong for reading the Bible if it’s not a version I like. I know lots of people that have come to the truth using many different versions. I myself prefer my NASB.

Jeremy: Spot on. I’ve known people who use versions I would never recommend to anyone and they had a more solid testimony than me.

Barbara: I’m so glad that Christ loves everyone despite of which Bible they use, or even if they own a Bible! 🙂

Sarah 2: Well-put, Barb! For personally I believe the King James Bible is the translation God has preserved and intended for us to use today! The new scholars that make these new translations are usually not seeking God’s input but relying on their own intellect to put it together the way they think it should have been done and thus, they cause contradictions all over! Why try to fix what isn’t broken? The old English is easy enough to understand. You may have to look a word or two up in the dictionary, but what’s wrong with expanding your knowledge a little bit, right?!?

Tracy: I can understand where the KJV only people are coming from. It would seem that a translation that has been passed down through the ages should be honored and respected, and they are right. But after receiving counsel and teaching from men who have sought to study, we need to remember that it is only a translation. There are many translations to be wary of for sure! The ESV though seems to be the most accurate of all translations. My belief on this stems from the teaching of several very wise men that I respect. My pastor is an older gentleman that has devoted most of his time to studying the scriptures, and has come to this conclusion after much study. I still enjoy using my KJV from time to time though.

Sarah 2: I don’t understand why people don’t have enough faith in God to believe that He could give us His perfect inerrant Word in the predominant language of our day. If they are all only translations, can you tell me where truth is? Where is God? If He isn’t big enough to give us His Word how are we supposed to believe He’s big enough to save us from a burning hell?!? I don’t trust what ANY man says. I trust what God said in His word. His PERFECT Word, the King James Bible! It’s not out of respect for anyone but the God who loved me enough to give me His very best!

Tracy: I would encourage you as a sister in Christ to consider the ESV translation. I was very leery of reading anything but KJV for a long time, but I have been very blessed by this one. I am thankful for studied men who encouraged me to read the ESV.

Heather: what isn’t broken doesn’t need to be fixed. We need to be very careful…. God warns against changing even one cross of a “t” or one dot of an “i” in His Word… so many “translations” today have cut out such verses that support the virgin birth, the blood of Christ, the resurrection, make Jesus look like a queer, etc.

Sarah 2: I appreciate your insight, but have to decline the offer. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, why would I want to find a fix for what isn’t broken?!? What need would I have to read anything, but what has proven to be my help in struggles, my hope when I’m desperate, my encouragement when I’m down and my light when I can’t find my way?!?! I don’t read a translation of the Bible. It’s not a “version” it is THE BIBLE! The only perfect Word in existence today. I know plenty of scholarly people who have done the research. And again, they depend more on their intellect than a faith in God to direct them to the truth. God is big enough to show Himself and His Word to anyone looking to find Him!

Heather: I had a NKJV for a couple months and found it to be lacking. I simply wanted to compare it to the KJV —- I have learned that God is all-knowing, all-powerful, and unable to fail: He claims in the KJV Bible that they are “the very Word of God”. I am a KJV-only believer by conviction.
Why do standards keep dropping?? Raise the bar back up! …and we wonder why Christians are such a mess today! We wonder why preachers don’t preach with God’s power on their lives!
“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” (Rom. 10:17)

Barbara: I think I am going to re-write Shakespeare. I just can’t understand it! 🙂 I usually try to stay away from this debate as much as possible. I do believe that my God will preserve His word for us. But, I do not want to argue/debate with someone just b/c they happen to use a different translation. I grew up using the KJV. I know its power in my life, and I find to use anything else just sounds strange. Like taking a beautiful poem and adding slang. BUT, I also respect that other people who have grown up using a different version may feel the same way. I think it is wonderful to study out for yourself why you believe what you believe, but in the end, I don’t believe the Lord would want us being divided over “issues.” Sometimes, “issues” turn people away from seeking out a personal relationship with Christ. I have met many KJV only Christians who cause more harm with their testimony, and I have met many sincere, devout Christians who use different versions.

Barbara: ran out of room… I believe the Lord cares more about our heart than which big black book we proudly caring under our arm.

Kirstyn: It’s so funny that you just got attacked on here for thanking God for the KJV… Great, you all have opinions!! But has anyone ever seen a status that says “I thank God for my uninspired, man-written fill-in-the-blank!!” I promise you there’s a whole lot more to be thankful for in that good ol’ KJV!! Here’s a thought: I was just in my old Jr choir last night and the new teacher taught the kids Titus 2:11 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.” And my mom asked “who can tell me what that means?” Several of the kids knew exactly what it meant, but what impressed me was a 12 year old boy who gave a perfect explanation of that verse… He didn’t have to have it dumbed down into “modern English” so he could understand it! And this isn’t a kid that grew up in church or in a Christian school… This kid is a bus kid of maybe 4 yrs and he’s gone to a public school. Amazing that a 12 yr old could do that when adults complain not being able to understand it…

Heather: I am not disrespecting anyone. This is not a heated argument. It’s merely a discussion. Through studying and by discussion, faith grows. Roots are grounded deeper. Minds are challenged. It’s not a matter of what’s good, or what’s not…. it’s a matter of what’s right! God is right.

Heather: Kirstyn, you’re exactly right! It really shows the intelligence of our day, doesn’t it!… or the lack thereof – to prefer a more simple, watered down “imitation” of the Bible over the real deal.
It’s more than just a “black book”…. it’s the Word of God!
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” (John 1:1)

Sarah 2: Well-said, Heather! I don’t think God wants us to be divided over petty things either. And I certainly know what you mean by not wanting to do more hurt than help. But I just don’t see the issue of the Bible as small. If there is no real Bible, where is truth? Why should we believe any of it if no one can prove it’s absolute? I can’t put my complete trust in something that is incomplete. Does that make sense? I’m probably just repeating myself now. AMEN, Kirstyn! That good ol’ teaching has done us some good! 🙂 Boy, do we all have something to be thankful for! I’m glad that in a world like we live in, I have somewhere to turn to that has all the answers I could ever need. And I don’t have to doubt if this is the right “version” or if that’s not really what God meant! So glad that “I know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able!”

Barbara: I hope no one thought I was addressing them individually, b/c that is not my intent. I LOVE my Bible. No one can persuade me to use anything else. It is powerful, life-changing, and direct access to the thoughts and desires of our God. I just feel like FB is such a public place. I have friends in Germany who will be able to see these comments… Read More. 😉 My concern is for non-believers who see Christians arguing, and to them it is arguing no matter how passionate we may feel, about which Bible is the real Bible. If they see that we can’t even agree on which is the Bible, than how can we agree on anything else. Again, this is just my opinion. I love you all! Well, if I actually know you!!! 🙂

Heather: Sarah…. amen! God has been so good to us!
And I’ll say it again: I THANK GOD for my KJV Bible!

Heather: Barb… I hope lost people DO read this. They need to know what the truth is! They are thrown this and that, sold this and that, taught this and that…. meanwhile they’re headed straight for Hell!
No, no… The truth needs to be taught, spoke of, discussed, proven, shown evident, testified of, held high, and protected. I’m willing to take that challenge.

Sarah 2: I know what you mean. Like you, I hope no one thinks I was upset with them. I usually try not to even get in conversations like this just because most people already have their minds made up! 🙂 I hope some of us have been challenged though!

David: Wow. It is interesting that when someone takes a stand for a book that has stood the test of time, it brings out so many comments. New translations are translated from corrupted manuscripts which removed the words blood, Christ, Lord Jesus, and many other important words from the Bible. Using a new translation just because you think it is easier to understand to abandon a trusted Bible. After all, our problem is not that we don’t understand the Bible but that we don’t DO what we already know!

David: And I thank God for people like Heather who are willing to buck the “Bible of the month club” philosophy!

Sarah 2: That will preach, David! Amen!

Heather: Mr. Arnold… you are right! Churches all across the country have split, fallen apart, and did 180-degree turns and are now heading the wrong direction because of this issue alone! God is not a man, that He should lie – and He changes not! Therefore, why does mankind feel the need to change His Word….? It needs not to be changed! It needs to be obeyed!!

Kirstyn: If Christians back down today because we don’t want to argue, then I think it would be a slap in the face to those who DIED to see that Bible passed down to the next generations… If it’s worth dying for, it’s certainly worth “squabbling” over!! I make no apologies for being a KJV believer, and thank God that those before us who didn’t apologize but rather gave their lives!!

Steven: Interesting Discussion 🙂 Things I wonder though are this:
1) Why do King James Only-ists create a standard that even Jesus and Paul didn’t abide by. They both quoted the Old Testament using Multiple Translations. Are you better than Jesus or Paul?
2) Do you stone your preacher for breaking down a Greek word in his sermon? If you were consistent you should, since the ESV and NASB does exactly that.
3) Where in the Bible does it say we should embrace a certain culture or language? It says we should embrace a Holy and sinless lifestyle. Not a particular culture or language.
Trying to force today’s English-speaking people to use the KJV only is like trying to force today’s Greek speaking people to use the Koine Greek only.
God is sovereign over all things, including Culture and Language changes.
Grace and Peace,
Steven 🙂

Heather: 1. Jesus merely quoted Himself – after all, He wrote the Bible. God is not the author of confusion, and He cannot and will not contradict Himself. People all through the ages have tried to disprove it, but none have succeeded. Praise God!
2. When my preacher breaks down a Greek word in His sermon He does not claim that his words are the Bible – he merely helps us understand. The different is, the translations claim to be something they are not. The preacher explains, and does not claim that his words are what they are not.
3. This is not about a culture or lifestyle. The Bible claims that it is the “very Words of God”, and it warns against changing even one “jot or tittle”. It’s not about race or styles – it’s about what’s right.No one is forcing anyone. God gave man a free will to do as He pleases. Hence, we have the Garden of Eden, Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, etc and etc. God is Sovereign, Amen!

Karah: I have to comment. The KJV is not the original Bible. It was translated by men of “that day”. It was written in the language of “that day”. King James was also a queer and wanted his name put on the Bible of that day. People do not speak the way they spoke in King James’ time. To compare Shakespeare to the Bible is very wrong. You need to be able to interpret the Bible correctly, especially if you’re a new Christian. New Christians get very frustrated if they can’t understand the Bible. Why would you give them something they can’t study? I was brought up with the KJV and couldn’t understand a lot of it. To say that the KJV is the only Word of God is so wrong. There are many translations out there that have been proved to be better translated from the original scripts than the KJV. The KJV is a translation of another translation. By all means be proud of your Bible, but really study where it actually came from. Don’t just listen to what others tell you.

Heather: I’ve never had a child tell me they don’t understand.
And what of those back in pioneering days that didn’t speak “old English” either….
Truly, this discussion could go on and on – it has been going on for centuries.
The KJV has stood the test of time. Martyrs died defending it. People today treat is so flippantly… like a revision needs to be made every 5 years. Truth needs no revision! Things get lost in the shuffle – like the blood of Christ, the Virgin birth, Jonah and the whale…. God help us.

Karah: You’re forgetting the point that the KJV is a revision as well. My Bible talks about everything that you listed that “got lost in the shuffle”. You can’t say that the KJV is the original word of God, because it’s not. AGain the KJV is a revision of another translation. You can’t keep avoiding that point. I know my Bible is a translation and not a translation and not a revision of another translation. KJV onlyers need to accept that their translation is really a revision of another translation. If you want to use the KJV, then by all means that’s great, but to say that the KJV is the ONLY Word of God is horribly wrong. It also was re-written by MEN. I’m glad you’re thankful for your Bible, we should all be thankful for our Word of God. But I had to comment on the incorrect information. Besides, the true Word of God is Jesus. The Bible is a historical document. There will be many translations throughout the ages, into the languages of the people reading it. But Jesus is the TRUE Word of God.

Sarah 2: You may be able to understand that version better, but what you’re getting is what the translator wants you to get and not what was inspired by God. Why is it so easy for someone to put their faith in God to save them, but not to preserve His Word forever? And whoever you learned that King James was a queer from was SORELY mistaken! You should really do some more study. And not just from the side you stand on, but from the other side as well to weigh what’s really at stake here.

Sarah 2: For the record, there are no “originals” why do people say that like they’ll just go get the papers Paul wrote on and tell you what He said? The scholars of today are translating from translations! Anyone that wants to can translate, but that doesn’t mean God has put His hand on them and is writing through them! The versions now are nothing more than that. They are incomplete without the hand of God on them! If you have never put your faith in a LIVING book before, it would explain why maybe you are having a hard time grasping that it is ALIVE and God Himself penned it through the men that translated.
Let God be true and every man a liar!

Gregory: It’s apparent that this is a very interesting discussion that carries a lot of baggage for people. All I can add to it is that today’s translations are more accurate than the KJV, as we have discovered older and better manuscripts since that time. Scholars today better understand the ancient Hebrew and Greek than those of the KJV did. The Bible was written to be read in the language of the people; there is nowhere in the Bible that says any translation is or will be divinely inspired. That verse was written far before the King James ever existed, so how could you take that and try to apply it to the KJV? Lastly, people have died for the Bible since its publication up until this day in some countries. That is not a KJV-only issue.

Gregory: Oh, and I agree with Barbara and so many people here! We shouldn’t be divided. We should use what we believe gives us the greatest understanding of God’s Word and the most accurate rendering of it, then take it and spread it everywhere. It is, after all, the Good News that changes lives. 🙂

Heather: True. He that is not against us, is for us (Luke 9:50). As long as the common goal is to win precious souls to the Lord Jesus Christ we are for each other. We should be “rightly dividing the Word of Truth”, though.
Sarah, I also agree with you.

Karah: I’m not sorry for what I said, but honestly Sarah Cheedie you should be ashamed of yourself for saying what you said to me. I do not know you and you do not know me. I don’t appreciate being told that I’m basically not a Christian and I don’t know how to read the Bible and I don’t understand it. I am not sorely mistaken in anything. I have been studying this issue for a very, very long time. I’m saying the KJV is a translation of the Geneva and Bishop Bibles. The KJV was good in its day. I have not once said that any of you are not Christians because you read KJV only and I would appreciate the same respect from you. I do look at things from the other side because I’ve been there. Have you done any research on your own side or the other’s? I have been a Christian my entire life. I am not so arrogant as to sit here and tell others they are not getting God’s Word because they don’t ready the KJV. That is why most people dislike Christians.

Heather: No one can judge anyone and say whether they are saved or not. You’re not a Christian based on what Bible you read or church you go to. You are saved only through the blood of Jesus Christ. And that is the ONLY way!

Karah: I just wanted to comment, and I’m done. Gregory Sage, I agree with you. I think more people need to be informed on where they get their translations from. I agree that we shouldn’t be divided over the same Bible, just translated at different times. To go so low as to make comments as the person said below my comments is exactly why there are so many people who don’t want anything to do with Christians. If you’re putting down your fellow believers then how can you witness to those who don’t? Try to listen to what others have to say instead of snapping back with nasty and uneducated comments. You’re wrong to say what you said about me and others on here and I think you need to be called out on that, Sarah.

Sarah 2: Karah, I apologize if that’s how that came across, but I don’t know where you got that I said you weren’t a Christian for it. I said that people put their faith in God, but can’t seem to find His truth anywhere. I have done research on both sides. I was challenged at an early age to begin studying it because someone may someday try to take it from me and I better know what I believe and why. I didn’t say anything about anyone here not being a Christian. I’m not ashamed of the fact that I know the King James Bible is perfect and inerrant and that if it’s not King James it’s not Bible. I will not now nor ever apologize for that.

Karah: One more thing. To say that the KJV is inerrant is also incorrect. It was written by men. It is the 4th revision of an original revision. I realized I didn’t go in to more detail of King James. He was gay; he was in love with his male cousin and had many male lovers. The KJV was dedicated to King James because he ordered it to be re-written because at the time there were two Bibles in dispute. The Geneva Bible and the Bishop’s Bible, put together as the KJV. Eventually the KJV Bible was ordered to be the only Bible to be used and no other by the political leaders of the day. Plus it was economically cheaper to print one Bible rather than 2 or 3 etc…To say that a man written document is flawless is wrong. Also you said that people put their faith in God but fail to find his truth anywhere is a conflict. How can you have faith in God if you can’t find his truth? So your statement makes no sense. I have faith in God and I know his truth and have found it. Period.

Tracy: Just as a clarification about the ESV. The scholars who translated this version were not trying to change the KJV like most of the others do. It is truly a word for word from the Greek and Hebrew languages. Karah is right about King James, although I’m not saying that “his” translation is bad. There are some places that are just not as accurate as they could be. I still use KJV much of the time and all of the scripture that I memorized as a child is from there, so I still have a great appreciation for it. We need to be careful both in being dogmatic about it and being liberal about what we choose to read. This has been an interesting discussion – It gives all of us some food for thought!

Sarah 2: Where did you find that truth? What I said is correct. It doesn’t make sense to me. How can you say you have God and you know Him if He is always changing and you can’t find an absolute truth?”

Sarah 2: I’m not saying you’re not a Christian. I’m simply asking as a christian, where do you find truth?

Karah: I suggest you read The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust Modern Translations by James White. He has multiple degrees in Greek. In his book he carefully and meticulously documents the flaws within the KJV. Take 1 John 5:7 for example……..”

Karah: Daniel B Wallace (a evangelical Christian who also has Greek training) says:
Modern advocates of the Textus Receptus and KJV generally argue for the inclusion of the Comma Johanneum (1 John 5:7) on the basis of heretical motivation by scribes who did not include it. But these same scribes elsewhere include thoroughly orthodox readings—even in places where the TR/Byzantine manuscripts lack them. Further, these KJV advocates argue theologically from the position of divine preservation: since this verse is in the TR, it must be original.

Karah: …Cont….. But this approach is circular, presupposing as it does that the TR = the original text. Further, it puts these Protestant proponents in the awkward and self-contradictory position of having to affirm that the Roman Catholic humanist, Erasmus, was just as inspired as the apostles, for on several occasions he invented readings—due either to carelessness or lack of Greek manuscripts (in particular, for the last six verses of Revelation Erasmus had to back-translate from Latin to Greek).

Karah: I recommend the NASB. Besides the Interlinear, the NASB is the closest to the original text we have. Check out this link from http://www.facebook.com/l/;Christianbook.com. Scroll down to “How Literal”? http://www.facebook.com/l/;http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/cms_content?page=73521&sp=104481

Caleb D: Boy, what a discussion! I haven’t done months and months of studying but what I do know is that the KJV ESV and NASB are word for word translations from manuscripts and versions like the NIV are thought by thought translations. The Word of God is very important but the version each person chooses to use should never be a defining factor in their salvation. Thanks for facilitating this discussion Heather!

Gregory: Actually that was one lie I was always told growing up, Caleb, was that the NIV is a thought for thought translation. Actually, it is almost word for word. Personally, I prefer the meaning driven because word-for-word isn’t the best English and doesn’t make as much sense to English-speaking people as they would to Greek. The translations I use (like the NLT) use the closest sayings in English that express the original Greek and Hebrew the best. Also, does it matter if King James was gay or not? That should be the least of our concerns. If God can accept someone for who they are, who are we to point fingers?

Gregory: That is an excellent resource, Karah! 🙂 Another of his books I loved was “What’s With the Dudes at the Door? Stuff To Know When the Cults Come Knocking”.

Caleb W: Wow. There is a lot of misinformed people here. I use facebook on my cell phone so I’m gonna be writing little mini essays. I am a Greek student and anyone with ANY language training can tell you that it is impossible to give a word by word translation or to vocally interpret it either. All these other so called Bible’s come from older texts that were found in A) Rome or B) Egypt, both which God is clearly against according to the Bible. Septuagint is basically a pile of crap. The Jews involved were not all Levites and thus had no business touching it. The Dead Sea scrolls had nothing to add except a chunk in Isaiah that is not found in ANY other manuscript.

Heather: PREEEEEAAACHHH!!!! Wooo!!

Caleb W: King James was decidedly straight. I have read his letters to his cousins. At the time this was perfectly normal. Keep in mind he was Scottish, who tend to use terms of endearment with both sexes. Calling a man lovely or fair or dear was just Scottish brogue.

Caleb W: The King James was not a Geneva Bible revision but a translation from seven different texts. “purified in a furnace seven times thou shalt keep them O Lord from this generation forever.” these so called Bibles don’t really change much of the King James… ONLY PUTS SATAN IN PLACE OF JESUS IN THE BOOK OF ISAIAH. But that’s not a big deal… They are pretty much the same, right?

Caleb W: It only attacks the incarnation of God. It only weakens the trinity. It only removes\changes the Blood of my Savior too many times to list here. Now I wonder who hates the blood of Jesus Christ? Me? Nope! God? Nope? You? I hope not! Satan? Ding, ding, ding! I think we have a winner… Well, more of a loser actually.

Caleb W: Now its catholic time YAY! Oops! Peter is married! But isn’t he the first pope? But he has a mother in law. Well we better change that. Oh crap! Jesus has siblings in multiple gospels. Rats, I guess Mary wasn’t a perpetual virgin with all those kids. (And don’t even try to say they are cousins because Jesus refers to his cousins later and they are nowhere near the same Greek word. Not that the Greek is even important. It’s a dead, unstable language. Ok so let’s make the catholic’s happy.

Steph: I ♥ the ESV, I never understood the Bible so clearly until reading it in the ESV.

Heather: ….I stand upon a Rock that never changes.

Steph: In 1769 the Oxford University Press published an edition of the King James Version in which many small changes were made. These changes were of five kinds: 1. Greater and more regular use of italics; 2.** minor changes in the text**; 3. the adoption of modern spelling; 4. changes in the marginal notes and references; and, 5. correction of printers’ errors. This edition soon came to be known as “The Oxford Standard” edition, because it was widely accepted as a standard text by commentators and other publishers. The editions of the King James Version published in our century generally reproduce this Oxford edition of 1769, with or without the marginal notes. The following information is given so that the reader may gain an accurate impression of how far the modern editions differ from the original King James Version of 1611.

Steven: If your Rock is the KJV….well your 1769 has many changes from the original 1611.

Heather: Jesus is the Rock. On Christ the Solid Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand. Rock of Ages cleft for me, let me hide myself in Thee!

Steph: you’re right Jesus is the Rock, not a translation.

Heather: “….and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” Praise God! He is so good!

Steven: Thank the Lord that He has preserved His Word through a mass of manuscripts which allow us to know His Word thoroughly rather than a singular translation which limits our studies to the interpretations of fallible men.

Loretta: I’m thankful that God blessed me with Christians in life that believe the King James Bible and have the testimony to back it up.

Heather: ….and it’s not the Bible’s fault if one does not understand it.

Loretta: Some of the best Christians I know are King James Bible Believers. I’m so tired of Christians justifying themselves by pointing out the faults and hypocrisy of the King James Bible Believers.

Heather: AMEN! I thank God that there are still people with backbone and guts willing to stand for the truth. I don’t apologize for that statement. I won’t sit down, shut up, back off, or run and hide. I am willing to stand and fight for the truth no matter the cost.

Steph: there is nothing “wrong” with the KJV, but it is not the only version – that is the point.

Heather: you’re right. It’s not the only “version”… but it is the only one that’s Bible. And that’s not just my opinion. It’s God’s declaration.

Steph: So in the Bible it declares to only use the KJV? And believe it or not it’s called the King James “Version”.

Steven: Heather, where in the bible or which Prophet said to only use the King James Translation? You and the Men you listen to. you are speaking where God hasn’t spoken.

Heather: Bible verses have been provided in the past 90 comments, but strangely enough they seemed to have been overlooked. Hmm.
Let’s do this. Instead of “trying” to “disprove” and “trample” the KJV, why don’t you provide some verses in the Bible that support “YOUR bible”. I’ve not heard any defense for these other “bibles”… only a battle against the KJV. Now let’s reverse it.

Steven: Who is trying to disprove or trample the KJV? The only thing trying to be disproved is the view that the KJV is the only translation Christians should read. I will be happy to address any verses that you feel support KJV onlyism. I haven’t seen any Biblical support here, only views from 1800KJVONLY.

Heather: we said nothing about you “shouldn’t read them”. We said they are not the inspired, preserved Word of God. There’s a big difference between those two statements.

Steph: At this point I will agree to disagree. If you ever want to know some of the changes made to the KJV just let me know and I will send some to you. There is nothing wrong with the KJV, I personally when quoting verses quote the KJV because that is how I was raised as you know and it is near and dear to my heart. However the ESV really makes some scriptures more clear, and I am like WOW, that is awesome.
P.S. Love ya Heather 🙂

Heather: I love you too, Steph! 🙂 that won’t change.

 

Your thoughts on the matter………?
I welcome you to join in.
Comment away…… 🙂

17 responses

16 08 2009
Dusty

Hi! I posted on this topic on your other blog before I realised you have this one too. To jump right in, I have a question:

I noticed no scripture to support either view discussed above. Although scripture was used, I do not feel it was in support (or to back up) the respective views.

This topic interests me, because I was raised being taught that KJV was the only accurate Word of God. However, I was never taught why. To be completely honest, I have not found an argument for the KJV position which convinces me that it is true. In searching and researching, I have found the opposite.
Thanks for being open and allowing posts!
Dusty

17 08 2009
hethiebaby

Hello! Thank you for your comment!
Actually – the discussion doesn’t end here. There are actually another 90+ comments that carry on the conversation. In those 90+ comments Scripture is given. Hopefully I will be able to update this post soon with that information.
~ Heather

17 08 2009
Dusty

Ok awesome, I look forward to reading them!

You and anyone here are welcome to join the discussions on my new blog:
http://mindofdusty.blogspot.com
There I am tackling not only this topic but in the future others within Christianity as well.

2 09 2009
Bill Bartmann

This site rocks!

8 09 2009
pelagian7

First, if God wanted us to have the word, it would be part of our makeup. And I think it is. “Do you not know you are the temple of God, and that the spirit of God dwells in you”. Dwells, means lives in, like a dwelling. The Apostle Paul wrote that in Corinthians. Eusebius (260-340) wrote the following,

“. . . yet our manner of life and the principles of our religion have not been lately devised by us, but were instituted and observed…from the beginning of the world, by good men, accepted by God; from those [natural notions which are implanted in men’s minds”]. Brackets are mine.
Truth lies in many places, it is up to us to find it.

A man named Tyndale, in England, translated the vulgate into English. The Vulgate was dismissed by the catholic translater as inferior to the older Greek texts. The Church banned Tyndale’s Bible, called it heresy, destroying many copies, buying others and having a mass burning. Years later when the KJB was began they borrowed heavily from the heretical Tyndale, as did Erasmus.

My point is this. What you are so sure cannot be true today, may be the truth tomorrow.
Pelagian7

8 09 2009
hethiebaby

“What you are so sure cannot be true today, may be the truth tomorrow.”

Truth does not change. It is a constant in this world. Hence, God Himself claimed to be truth, and we know that God – the same yesterday, today, and forever – never changes.
—> “For I am the LORD, I change not…” (Malachi 3:6a)

What I am so sure cannot be true today, may not be truth tomorrow — in the context of God and His Word.

8 09 2009
pelagian7

“in the context of God and His Word.”
Your God’s word is based upon human interpretation, which does change. And my point is, that those who interpret God’s word as absolutes are, in fact, playing God themselves.

Those who lived in Tyndale’s time would have believed the only truth was found in the Latin Vulgate. They’d be as positive as you are. But when Rome translated and the scholars for KJB began they found spurious passages and removed them. The end of the 16th chapter of Mark had been added in the Vulgate and 1John5:7,8 were corruptions. Just two examples from Bainton’s biography of Erasmus.

“For I am the LORD, I change not…” (Malachi 3:6a)”
Are you equating the heavenly father and scripture? Of course the creator doesn’t change, neither would the things expected of us. But, humans are fallible, even when comes to scriptute, thus, it is arrogance or fear that some profess to know truth.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that people believe, that what they profess, is the end all, rather than, how they live their life. And the scripture some will quote to argue is just another opinion, based on interpretation.

The Jews who wrote those scriptures felt persecuted and it is reflected in their writings. They set themselves apart with claims that made sense to them then. The Bible is not an instruction book. Jesus didn’t tell people how to live, that was already written in the Old Test., he told stories, allowing the human element to be rediscovered. Literal truth renderings are again, like the Pharisees before, removing the human element.
Pelagian7

8 09 2009
hethiebaby

“Are you equating the heavenly father and scripture?”>>> No, I am not equating the Heavenly Father and Scripture; God Himself is equating Himself to Scripture:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” – John 1:1

“The Jews who wrote those scriptures felt persecuted and it is reflected in their writings. They set themselves apart with claims that made sense to them then.”
>>> The Bible is not just a collection of words written down by sinful-natured men who were journaling their feelings. The Bible was written by GOD through men that He picked to be the instruments through which his Words would flow through ink onto paper.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (II Peter 1:20, 21)

“The Bible is not an instruction book. Jesus didn’t tell people how to live, that was already written in the Old Testament…”
>>> “Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.” – Psalm 119:105
What do you think the 10 Commandments are? We know of them because they are in the Bible. What would you call the “Roman’s Road”…? Deuteronomy is basically a book full of instructions to the Nation of Israel. Leviticus is a book of Instructions to the Priests. You are wrong, Sir. The Bible IS an instruction book. For in it we have the “directions” on what we must do to obtain salvation by simple faith in Christ – and through that, an eternity in Heaven. The Bible is almost like a “roadmap” of the Christian life. By it, we learn what is good, pleasing, and acceptable to the Father.

Thank you for commenting.

9 09 2009
pelagian7

Hethiebaby, Reread my earlier post. I agreed with you, the rules were established in the Old Test. The same books you quoted.

“The Bible is not an instruction book. Jesus didn’t tell people how to live, that was already written in the Old Test.” [from earlier comment]

My point was that Jesus was trying to establish a kinder more compassionate Judaism. I should have been more specific. The “Law” the 613 Jewish rules, plus numerous traditions were seen suffocating and Jesus seemed to be trying to get the Pharisees to back off their literal readings and have compassion for circumstance.

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” (II Peter 1:20, 21)”

That book was written long after Peter died. But in case you want to play quote the scripture, It also says that “(all) scripture is God breathed” [or inspired] which would seem odd because many scriptures were kept from the Bible.

The Jews and early Christians called any inspirational writing “God Breathed”. Just as today we have inspirational writings that are wise, labeled “Inspirational”. I hope two thousand years from now people don’t look at those and say look, inspirational, that means “inspired” But, those writings would have been called, in Jesus time, God breathed or coming from being moved by the Holy Ghost.

A common misconception is to define language in the terms we are familiar. Rather, we need to read other Jewish writings from that era and see if the same terms come up and in what context. I’ve done that, finding that only the books of Moses fell into the realm you talk about.

But even then, they were read not just as history but allegory too. Meaning that literal interpretation alone gave you half the message.

Besides Jesus warns us about scribes, calling them vipers, which had the connotation of decievers. Since there were no copy machines or printing presses, I must assume scribes copied the texts we are using.

Check my claims, I could be wrong. Pelagian7

12 09 2009
elizabeth busshaus

“My point was that Jesus was trying to establish a kinder more compassionate Judaism. I should have been more specific. The “Law” the 613 Jewish rules, plus numerous traditions were seen suffocating and Jesus seemed to be trying to get the Pharisees to back off their literal readings and have compassion for circumstance.”

Sorry to butt in here, but I had to say something when I read ^^. Jesus was not coming to establish a “kinder more compassionate Judaism” or a softer law, but He was coming to raise the Law! To ask us to a higher standard! A higher one even than the Law of Moses!!

“You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matthew 5:48. I think calling us to being perfect as opposed to those 613 Jewish Laws is a much higher standard.

Though this higher standard is even more impossible to fulfill, Jesus also came to bring us peace with God the Father as well as leaving us the Holy Spirit, so that we might not only be justified, but also sanctified.

13 09 2009
pelagian7

Hi, Elizabeth, hethiebaby, sorry to use your site for this. Maybe, though, it interests you also.

I’ve checked the LXX Septugaint and it doesn’t say we must be perfect. It implies we strive for perfection. Yet, your position really doesn’t intersect mine, it parralels it. The following scripture should clarify my view.

Again the Pharisees and scribes, ” They were strict legalists. They stood for the rigid observance of the letter and forms of the law, and also for the traditions.” [Zondervan]
Of course Jesus used scripture. But in John 7: 15-24 Jesus displays his loathe of literal scripture and he uses hypocrisy to demonstrate it.

(The New Jerusalem Bible, John 7: 15-24
“How did he learn to read, he has not been educated. (Jesus answered them)
(15), My teaching is not from myself: it comes from the one who sent me; anyone who is prepared to do his will, will know whether my teaching is from God or whether I speak on my own account. . .(20) “why do you want to kill me?” *the crowd replied, “you are mad! Who wants to kill you?” *Jesus answered, “One work I did, and you are all amazed at it. *Moses ordered you to practice circumcision–not that it began with him, it goes back to the patriarchs–and you circumcise on the Sabbath. *Now if someone can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses is not broken, why are you angry with me for making someone completely healthy on a Sabbath? *Do not keep judging according to appearances; let your judgement be according to what is right.” [Asterisks were dots in the Bible.]

The letter of the Law, was to rest on the Sabbath. And that is how the Pharisees became hypocrites, they quoted the letter of the law but did not follow it themselves.

Jesus is being condemned for healing on the Sabbath. Pharisees as hypocrites is accurate but that leaves out an important aspect, they were hypocrites who propped up their position with scripture. In this and other verses Jesus demonstrates that scripture is a guide and the ultimate authority is our compassion, do what is right rather than the appearance of right; which is clearly not a literal interpretation of scripture in John 7.

I’m sorry I don’t remember the scripture verse, but I do recall Jesus saying he had no intention of replacing the laws of Moses. He said if they followed his two commandments. . . I didn’t mean to imply that a more compassionate Judaism was his only teaching either.

My main point is, that trying to literally interpret scripture as absolutes is one of the injustices Jesus addressed. Two groups of Pharisees were vying for power then. Followers of Hillel and the Shammaites. Some Hillelaites were followers of Jesus. The Shammaites were in league with the Sadducean Priests who ran the court persecuting Jesus. The main difference between sects was the Shammaites were rigid interpreters of scripture and law.

I hear evangelists today quoting scripture according to appearances (thinking their literal interpretation of a translation of translation is absolutely accurate). And not judging according to what is right. Jesus, in the earlier scripture quoted, left the determination of what is right up to us and compassion.

By attacking injustice and ignorance, showing us a better way, we would become closer to God. Earlier in Matthew, 5: 13 I think, Jesus teaches how to recognize false prophets. He points out that those who profess his name but do not create good fruit will be damned. He very pointedly points to our fruit or good works as the ultimate measure of salvation.

Pelagian7, thanks for your reply elizabeth and I look forward to your thoughts on my replies hethiebaby.

18 09 2009
steve

Heth;
I admire your stand for the KJV very much. I’ve been reading and studying the KJV (only) since 1972. The debate has been intense (reading some of the comments here). My summation is that the KJV contains the words of eternal life. I’m not a spiritual guy, but one thing has always stood out to me. The folks that claim to know the most about the bible are usually the ones that have never read it.
I feel the instruction in Proverbs, chapter 2, verses 1 through 5 is the key to begin to “understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God”.
But anyway, like I said, I’m not spiritual and I fall short of God’s glory on a daily basis. I just encourage those who doubt the veracity of the KJV to rest assured that they’ll be okay reading and doing what it says.

http://stevex09.wordpress.com/2009/09/08/change-the-congress-in-2010/

7 10 2009
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